Discussion of "I Am the Light of the World"

[0:00] John 8, verses 12-21 was the text for this morning's sermon, so I'll reread that before we look at our application questions if you want to follow along with me John 8, verses 12-21.

[0:18] Again, Jesus spoke to them saying, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. So the Pharisee said to him, you are bearing witness about yourself. Your testimony is not true.

[0:33] Jesus answered, even if I do bear witness about myself, my testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going.

[0:44] But you do not know where I come from or where I am going. You judge according to the flesh. I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true. For it is not I alone who judge, but I am the Father who sent me.

[0:58] In your law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me. They said to him, therefore, where is your Father?

[1:09] Jesus answered, you know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also. These words he spoke in the treasury as he taught in the temple, but no one arrested him because his hour had not yet come.

[1:21] So he said to them again, I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come. So first question that we had in our application.

[1:34] Questions is, why do the claims of Christ eliminate the common idea that he was a good religious teacher, but he is not God? Think about Scripture.

[1:45] We have a microphone here.

[2:15] We discussed the woman at the well. And we just had it recently in our ladies' book club, because we're studying different women in the Bible in our Monday night club. And the extraordinary thing about it, at that time, that was the first time he actually said it in black and white.

[2:31] I am he, the Messiah, whom you're speaking with, when she was asking him, are you a prophet? You know, we know Messiah is coming. And he said, you're speaking to me right now.

[2:41] So, there was one claim there. Yeah, good. Because if there was multiple ways, then he would have been like, yeah, how you Samaritans worship and what you think is fine. But instead, yeah, he revealed himself to her as being the Messiah.

[2:55] The only one. All right, Wes, back here. Why do the claims of Christ eliminate the common idea that he was a good religious teacher, but he is not God?

[3:08] Enlighten us, Mr. Wes. John 10, 30.

[3:19] I and the Father are one. Okay. Good example, like we've seen in our own text right here. And he's, Jesus is saying, I am one of the seven I am statements. Whenever he says that, what he's saying is I am God.

[3:31] He's using the covenant name of God. Okay, Julie right here. Well, at his baptism, the sky opened and God said, this is my son in whom I'm well pleased.

[3:44] And there were many witnesses to that. Yeah, so pretty clear. Not only was it Jesus's testimony, it was the father's testimony as well, that this is the son of God.

[3:57] Good. I pointed out this morning, John 14, 6. Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me. And that's, I mean, as exclusive as it gets, doesn't it?

[4:10] I mean, he says, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me. And honestly, if you guys heard, I know a lot of you have, C.S. Lewis is a liar, lunatic or Lord.

[4:24] And he's presented, you know, the claims of Jesus. Either he was lying about them, he was crazy, or he was who he truly was. And so as we're talking to people who say, well, I believe that Jesus was a good moral teacher.

[4:39] If you take them to scripture and show them that Jesus said that he was so much more than that. He said that he was the savior of the world. And he told people that if they don't believe in him, that they will die eternally.

[4:51] They will suffer in their sin eternally. And so if he was not Lord and he told people that, then he was not a good man. Because millions of people who have trusted in him, if he wasn't truly the son of God, would be severely disappointed.

[5:13] You know what I'm saying? Now, we obviously believe that his claims to be God are true and that we will not be disappointed. But that to say, if you don't believe that he is God, the son of God, then you cannot say that he's a good person.

[5:27] Because he said right here, clearly, I'm the way, I'm the truth, I'm the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. And so you cannot believe that he was a good religious teacher.

[5:42] Because that's not what he claimed to be. He claimed to be God. And if he's not God, then he's not good. Because of what that would mean for so many who have trusted in him.

[5:54] Anybody else want to add anything to this question? Cameron back here. I love that the Pharisees tried to use his own words against him.

[6:12] From John 5, where he says, if I alone testify about myself, you know it's false. And so here you see the Pharisees now trying to turn that on him. And I think that's what we're going to see when we get that common idea of a good religious teacher, but he's not God.

[6:28] They're going to use his words against him somehow, some way. Or they're going to use the Bible. Or they're going to try to twist the Bible. And so we've got to know exactly the words of Christ and exactly what he was teaching.

[6:43] Or it's so easy to kind of fall into those little twists. Yeah. Like you see the Pharisees here. Well, you said if you testify, if you're the only one who testifies about yourself. And so I think it's just another reminder that we've got to keep ourselves buried in the word so that we don't fall for those little twists.

[7:02] Yeah, good point. Nor can we, you know, in sharing the gospel with somebody and they say, well, I believe that Jesus was a good teacher. So we spike the ball in the end zone and be like, all right, they're saved.

[7:15] No, they're not because they don't believe in him as Lord and Savior. Okay, Amy over here. First of all, first of all, if you just think about it, Buddha, Muhammad, all them guys.

[7:35] Did they ever say they were God? Okay. Jesus plainly said, I am God. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of bold.

[7:47] And I'm going to read out of my Arthur here. But so don't give it to me. It's his. 23 times in all, we find our Lord's meaningful I am, the ego, Amy.

[8:03] I don't speak Greek, sorry. In the Greek Testament. And he joins his I am statements with seven tremendous metaphors which are expressive of his saving relationship.

[8:17] No other person, no Buddha, no anybody ever said, I'm going to save you. Hmm. They didn't even hardly say I can show you the way. Hmm.

[8:28] So he said, I am the bread of life. I am the light of the world. I am the door of the sheep. I am the good shepherd.

[8:40] I am the resurrection and the life. I am the way, the truth, and the life. And I am the true vine. And it's all those things together which point to the salvation that the people have been looking for since creation.

[8:56] Hmm. Since the garden that caused us to look at Jesus and he's different. Yeah.

[9:07] He's just different than anybody else. He's the only one that offers hope. That's true. Also, I'm going to, my Friday morning Bible study group knows this.

[9:22] My scripture that we use, we're at, give us the provision part of the Lord's Prayer. And one of the things that came to me was the I am again.

[9:36] In that, which always amazes me when God says something like that to me and then it's reiterated. Hmm. That God is a covenant-making God.

[9:48] These other people don't promise you anything. Hmm. And they're people. God is God. And in this morning, in your sermon, you mentioned the I am, the covenant-making God.

[10:04] And I just about jumped out of the pew. So, thank you, Lord. Okay, that's it. Neat when those things come together. Yeah, I love it. I love it when God says, oh, here it comes. And here comes Mike. Mike and then Wes.

[10:17] Go ahead, Mike. I was sitting close to you. If there were one testimony that I would have loved to have been at, it would have been on the Mount of Transfiguration.

[10:28] Hmm. Oh, that always gets me. Yeah. You know, it was neat to be there. It was neat to be there, Peter says. Let's build three tabernacles. And how God pointed out, this is my son.

[10:42] Listen to him. Yeah. Yeah. Another great example of Jesus being the light of the world. Back there, Jack, to Wes, please. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's cool about that, too, is that light, it wasn't a reflection.

[10:55] It was emanating from him. So, very cool. Wes? I think of just things that weren't specifically a verbal claim. He claimed it. But the proof that he had through all the miracles that he did.

[11:08] And when you think of when he calmed the waves on the sea and how the disciples, they were all trembling. They were scared. Like, who are we in the boat with? This guy, even the wind and the waves obey him? So, if he has the ability to raise people from the dead and multiply bread out of nowhere and all the stuff he did, those are claims, too, that he is God.

[11:26] Yeah. And God could do something like that. And I think those kind of go in with it, too. If someone's arguing that, oh, he's just a good teacher. Yeah, a good teacher that turned water into wine. He walked on the water. He, you know, rose dead people.

[11:38] He multiplied bread. All the things that he did, that's not just a good moral teacher. Yeah. That's something totally divine. Yeah, good point. So, and then up here to Julie, Jack.

[11:51] The words, the actions, ultimately the cross and the empty tomb. All indicators that this was not just a good teacher. Only God is capable of doing the things that Jesus did.

[12:05] Julie? I think the other thing that testifies to him as God is the profound change that you see. In people.

[12:16] When they come to faith in him. Or the healings that he did. When he, you know, spoke to the woman at the well. When he gave blind Barabbas his eyesight.

[12:29] They were profoundly changed. And you just can't conjure that up. Yeah. Instant transformation. Yeah.

[12:39] Still today. People who are, yeah, brought, transferred from darkness to light. Instant transformation. Still a work in progress. But that transformation has taken place.

[12:51] The Holy Spirit has taken residence in that believer forever. So the things that I think keep in mind in this question is we've all talked about, of course, everything. But that he can't be a good teacher and teach what he taught if it wasn't true.

[13:08] And then to keep pointing people back to the scripture and what did Jesus say about himself? These I am statements. The testimony of the rest of scripture.

[13:20] And bring that to mind. Listen, Jesus didn't claim to be merely a good religious teacher or religious figure. He said he was God. And then even as like Amy was mentioned before, you know, and how this is different from all the other religions.

[13:35] Just point them back to Jesus' words. All roads don't lead to heaven. He said, I am the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Let's move on to question two. How does Christ's call to follow him conflict with our culture's call to individualism?

[13:51] And this was one where I wanted to put more into the sermon about this, but that's it would have taken way too long. And I was finally like, there's just so much here to say that this could this should be really a whole nother sermon.

[14:07] But, you know. I would hurry started the sermon, so I was like, well, I can't stop now. But you know what I'm saying, because this is a big thing for our culture. However, individualism is huge right now, isn't it?

[14:21] And, you know, the one thing now I want to make sure I'm understood right. Leadership is a good thing. Leadership is a good thing. And we should train good leaders in the church, right?

[14:33] And so leadership is a good thing. But a lot of focus in our culture is on being a leader and individual. And not so much as talk about following.

[14:43] What does it mean to be a good follower? And I remember being in middle school that one of the worst things somebody could call you was a follower. I don't know if any of the rest of you have ever heard that.

[14:54] And maybe that was just my middle school. But if you were a follower, that meant that, you know, you couldn't think for yourself. You're basically just copying off of someone.

[15:06] You weren't being true to who you really were. And there's some truth in that. But, you know, in the church, I think maybe there should still be a great emphasis on leadership and what it means to be a leader.

[15:18] But also, you know, that the best leader is a follower of Christ. And talking more about what it means to be a follower. And Jesus, you know, wasn't trying to empower people that I see, the woman at the well or the woman caught in adultery.

[15:33] It wasn't like, well, you live your truth. You know, that's your truth. You be you. You do your thing. Don't let anybody else. You know, you come to this well. Who cares what these other people think about you or say about you, you know?

[15:46] So what? You like to have a lot of husbands or whatever or something like that, you know? It's not an individual, I'm going to empower you to be the best you you can be. His call is always follow me.

[15:58] And how many times throughout the Gospels do we hear him say that? Follow me. Follow me. Follow me. Follow me. And we live in a time right now in our culture where it's very much the opposite, isn't it?

[16:11] You define your truth. You live your truth. You know, if you're born male and want to be female and go ahead and do it or vice versa or whatever, you just want to be whatever you want to be, then just go ahead and be that.

[16:24] Do that. And don't let anybody else tell you differently. Any other comments? How does Christ call to follow him conflict with our culture's call to individual?

[16:37] Because we don't see that in Scripture, do we? All right, Nick's got a comment. I don't ever see anywhere where Jesus says, well, you define your own truth and you do what makes you feel happy.

[16:50] Because he knows us, right? I was just studying Jude and Jude identifies himself as a servant of the Lord. And he calls the Lord our master and Lord.

[17:04] So that made me think, okay, of the other apostles or of the other writers of the New Testament, how many of them identify themselves as the Lord's servant? And so Paul does it.

[17:15] John does it. Jude does it. James does it. And Peter does it. And I was just looking at the start of Revelation. John says that this is the revelation of Jesus Christ to his servants.

[17:27] We are identified as his servants. He's our master. So our individual desires that our society tells us are primary for us. The Scripture would say, no, we're the Lord's servants.

[17:40] Our desires are nothing. All that matters is what our master requires of us. And that totally conflicts with what our culture would say. Yeah. Good point. A doulos, right?

[17:50] A bondservant. Bondslave. What impacts have we noticed this having? And now we're still obviously, you know, we're not diverting from the message or from Scripture.

[18:03] But, you know, just thinking about what we see from our culture through a Christian perspective. What consequences are we seeing in our culture as a result of this message of individualism?

[18:16] Anarchy? What else? In our young people. Chaos and confusion. Broken lives.

[18:31] Broken homes. You do what makes you feel happy. No self-sacrifice for others. Loss of hope.

[18:42] I agree. You know, now I'm going to get on a soapbox about something here that's related. But, and hear me out.

[18:52] It has bothered me since when I was a kid, you know, and those my age and maybe, maybe even not. I mean, it's been around for a while. But the message to kids was, you can do it if you just believe enough in yourself.

[19:09] You know? And that's a great, that's a great message. It's like, yes. If I believe enough in myself, I can do it. But then I realized that I can't do some things, you know?

[19:20] No matter how much I would want to fly a space shuttle into outer space, that thing would crash and burn somewhere. Because I just lack the intellect to be able to do that, right?

[19:32] But the thing for me is, I wanted to be a professional baseball player. And I remember thinking, that's all I want to do. That's all I want to be. And if I work hard enough at it, I can do it.

[19:45] Because that's what the world tells me. I can do it if I work hard enough, if I want it enough. And obviously that didn't happen, right? And, well, but, you know, I'd think and I'd be like, God, though, if you would just make me a baseball player, I'll eventually go into ministry.

[20:01] But I will give the church lots of money, you know? And try to make this agreement with him. And it never happened.

[20:12] But, you know, because I don't have the ability. I don't have the ability. There are some things that we just don't have the ability to do. And you can set your mind to some things, but your ability might be limited in your ability to be able to accomplish it.

[20:30] You know what I'm saying? And I think that, like Wes said, that can be really frustrating and depressing for young people.

[20:42] You told me that I could do this, or if I did that, or if I believed this, that I'd be happy. And I'm not. You know, and I don't like who I am. And that's why, you know, and that's what I was going to draw into John 10, where Jesus talks about his sheep.

[21:02] I'll just start reading in verse 1 through 3. I think your identity as a believer is in Christ.

[21:30] He's the one who calls, and he's the one who calls us by name to follow him. I think part of what Jesus is saying there, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but, you know, to find out who you really are.

[21:45] You hear my voice. I know your name. And you follow me. And then things in life make sense, don't they? Understand, this world is under the curse of sin.

[21:56] I have sinned against God. My only hope is in Jesus Christ, and he has loved me to come and to die for me, to give me life, to take my sin and give me eternal life.

[22:09] I feel loved. I feel like my life has purpose. I have reason to hope now and forever because God has sent his son who loved me and died for me, giving me eternal life.

[22:24] No matter what I go through in this world, and I know that it's under the curse of sin and that being identified with Christ will mean that people will hate me. The world will hate me as it hated him. But I have this hope that endures all things, right?

[22:38] Because Christ has come and because Christ has died and because Christ has risen again. The good shepherd knows me and he knows me by name. Doesn't that feel good whenever, if ever you've been in a situation where somebody seems important, you know, whatever it was.

[22:55] Maybe even when you were, maybe the principal of your school when you're in elementary school. And usually if they knew you by name, that might be a bad thing. But sometimes it could be a good thing, you know. But when somebody of that stature, maybe the somebody who's above your supervisor at work, whatever.

[23:14] You guys, I think, know what I'm talking about. But if they see you somewhere and they know your name, doesn't that feel good? Like, wow, they know my name because it feels like they care about me.

[23:26] They take an interest in me and they know my name. But here we have God. No one's above him, right? No one's above him and he knows your name.

[23:39] And he calls your name. That feels good. You know, we're not just like God's like, ooh, you know, I'm pleased to see all these people who are here to worship me.

[23:52] That's cool. And he's like, I know each and every single one of them. I've saved each and every one of them. That feels good. So, yeah, I think that, you know, for us, the best leader is the one who follows Christ.

[24:04] And so, Christ's call to follow him does conflict with our culture's call to individualism. And that's, you know, what we've got to bring to their mind as well.

[24:19] Jesus doesn't just want you to be, you know, his buddy or a pal. But like Nick said, you know, he is the master and we are the servant.

[24:32] He is the master. We are the slave. But he's a good master who knows his servants and who loves them and who does call them friends, right? And who has given his life that they may have life.

[24:44] That's a good thing. Question three. How can you best reflect the light of Christ? And we can change this question to talk about like how can we as a church or how can a believer best reflect the light of Christ during a time of national division?

[25:04] Okay, Kendra. Give her some space. No, I'm just reading a passage. All right. From Philippians 2.

[25:14] I'm going to read 12 through 18. It says, Therefore, my dear brothers, as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

[25:29] For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Do everything without complaining and arguing so that you may become blameless and pure children of God without fault.

[25:42] In a crooked and depraved generation. In which you shine like stars in the universe. As you hold out the word of life in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

[25:58] I think it's important that we remember that, yes, our nation is divided and they're divided about a lot of different things. But getting someone on the same page with you about this political idea or that political idea will not save their soul.

[26:20] But it is our job to do all things without arguing and complaining. For us to work out our faith. For us to reflect the light of Christ as stars that shine in the universe.

[26:37] And so if we're doing our job, which is to speak boldly, to open our mouths when given the opportunity to tell people for the hope that we have, then that is ultimately what will save others, help division and help other issues.

[26:58] We have to get to the real issue. Good. That's where we have to focus. Yeah, great observation and great scripture, because that's one that we are tempted, I think, right now to forget about.

[27:11] Because right now we see a very divided world. And I know we all have our own opinions about political things, right? And frustration.

[27:23] But we cannot, we're not called to, you know, like Kendra mentioned through that scripture to reflect the world, but Christ and that unity and that peace and that love that is clearly absent in our world right now.

[27:40] And, you know, as Kendra was reading that scripture to us, thinking of the one this morning from Matthew five about the city on the hill, about we are the light of the world, right?

[27:56] And so by our good works, people are to are going to praise God by what they see taking place amongst us.

[28:06] Second Timothy one is another scripture that comes to mind. First of all, then I urge that sublocations, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all people.

[28:20] Not just the people I like, not just the people who have the same political thoughts that I have or the same whatever.

[28:31] You name it, they buy the same brands as I do or whatever. I don't know. They like the chiefs or the cowboys or whatever. All people for kings and all who are in high positions.

[28:46] And what's interesting here is you think about Paul writing to Timothy and the emperor, I believe during this time was Nero, who was horrible, who persecuted Christians intensely, who blamed them, we believe historically for the fire that was set that maybe was set by Nero looking at Nick, too, because he's my historian over there.

[29:11] But this was a horrible guy. And yet, Paul is saying, pray for him. Now, here's the other thing, too, is I think sometimes we think, well, pray for him means God smite Nero.

[29:25] You know, just obliterate him. Get him out of the way. So he doesn't exist anymore. So this persecution ends. But that's not at all what he's implying here, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

[29:40] This is good and is pleasing in the sight of God, our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

[29:53] And so, we need to be prayerful during this time. And I think as we're prayerful, according to what I'm reading in this passage and in others, it will give us a peace to remind us that we have reason to be hopeful.

[30:14] We have reason to be joyful, no matter what the situation may be. And we are to live peaceful, quiet lives.

[30:28] Now, I don't think that that means passive lives, where we're just like, well, that's going on over there, and we're just going to come to our building, our bubble, and we're good here, and forget you guys.

[30:45] You know, I think a peacemaker, according to what Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, is somebody who enters into situations where there's conflict, seeking to bring peace. When we enter into these conflicts, and the peace that we seek to bring is what?

[31:00] Peace between man and God, through Jesus Christ. And so, however we can enter into these conflicts, not trying to win an argument, but to point people to the truth found in Jesus Christ our Lord.

[31:13] And I think the other thing, too, is we should hope and pray for as well, is that in our culture, we see there's a lot of division, isn't there? And it's not just one group in this group where there's a lot of division there, but amongst many other littler groups.

[31:29] Just a lot of division, a lot of anger, a lot of angst, a lot of hatred. And they should look at the church and see multi-generational, multi-ethnic, different socioeconomic situations and statuses.

[31:55] These are people who are different, yet, despite their differences, they love each other. They care about one another. They're kind to one another.

[32:07] They worship together. They're friends. And beyond that, they say that they love one another, and you can see that. And then hopefully, as they look at that, that gives us a testimony to say, well, though we're different, we have one great thing in common, and that is Jesus Christ, who we know as our Lord and Savior.

[32:27] And because of that, we are the body of Christ. Despite whatever differences we have, knowing Jesus as your Lord and Savior obliterates all of them, right?

[32:37] There's no Greek or Gentile, Jew or free. We are the body of Christ. Any other thoughts to this question? How best can you or the church or Christians reflect the light of Christ during a time of national division?

[32:58] Paul. Kind of continuing the same that Kendra was making, and I was reminded of a couple things. One is that we're to defend our faith with gentleness. It says that in the Bible, and nothing irks me more than to see professed Christians out there in the World Wide Web spewing hatred towards groups.

[33:20] And the other thing I was reminded of is I worked with somebody years and years ago, and he said something. He was talking about boycotts, and I'm not against being politically active, but his point was, where have you read in the Bible that we should expect a lost person to act like a saved person?

[33:40] Ah, good point, Paul. And it's not there. Yeah. And if we would spend, if some of us would spend half of the effort that we spend towards trying to forcibly change people into evangelism, we might make a difference.

[33:57] Yeah. Good point. Good observations. Yeah. And, you know, we're thinking about the people that you interact with around Bartlesville.

[34:08] You know, and have you been tempted at times to notice something about the way they dress, or something on their t-shirt, or maybe a bumper sticker on their car, and to think, away with you.

[34:21] You know? Nothing to do with you. We are different, and I have nothing to say to you, but, you know, what does that say?

[34:31] And does that reflect Christ who came to sinners? Who emptied Himself? Who came? Who died on the cross for our sins? And so, yeah, just the change of mind that, yeah, absolutely.

[34:51] And the change of mind, this is a lost person, and I have the light that needs to, and I pray that would be used to shine in their life, that they would see the truth of Christ as well.

[35:05] Good. Anybody else? Question four. What superficial reasons for rejecting Christ have you heard when you have shared the gospel?

[35:16] So remember, the Pharisees reject Christ's claim to be the light of the world, because they said, one, on the legal technicality, that you've got to have another witness. Secondly, the comment about, well, where's your father?

[35:31] So, what superficial reasons for rejecting Christ have you heard when you've shared the gospel, and how can you best answer these excuses, or how can we best answer these excuses?

[35:42] All right, Nick, and then Wes. I'll never forget, I was working with a guy in college, and I was witnessing to him, and years before, we had been on the same baseball team together.

[35:56] His name was Ivan. So I'm witnessing to Ivan, and he just goes, man, I just can't believe this. And I say, why? And he goes, because, man, I believe in science.

[36:08] And then I said, like, what exactly? And then he just got quiet, and he was like, I don't know. And so, when you say superficial, like, it was the most superficial reason ever.

[36:22] Really, Ivan liked, he liked living a sinful lifestyle of a young man. That's really what Ivan liked. And so, his superficial reason was that he was scientific.

[36:35] But it wasn't that. It was that Ivan was sinful. Yeah, good. Have you heard that one too? You know, I'm too smart to believe in this. Yet, some of the, okay, then over, back here to Wes.

[36:49] But, you know, so many men and women of God who are brilliant people. Brilliant people who are saved. And that claim too, bothers me too. Like, what, so we don't believe in gravity, and things like that.

[37:03] Like, we think that there's angels pushing our heads down to keep us from floating off. Like, you know, obviously we believe. Well, I know what they're trying to say, but it's ridiculous.

[37:14] Wes? Well, I got two if I can remember the second one when I'm done. First of all, when people say, you know, there's more than one way to get to heaven. There's, you know, all these different religions, and there's, you know, your way is good for you, and all that kind of stuff.

[37:27] And I remember at John, MacArthur Conference, Vodhi Bakken was talking about, to people, they were saying that. And it's all just the same mountain, but we're all going up different sides of the mountain to get there. But at the top is God. So, the Buddhists are going out this side of the mountain, and the, the, Hindus, or, all the different ways, and then we all get to the top, and there's God.

[37:47] And, and Vodhi said, yeah, but what if you had a God that, he came down the mountain to you? You know, it's like, that's what our God is. Yeah. You're not going to be able to climb that mountain. They tried to build a, a tower of Babel, and it didn't work, right?

[38:01] God came down for us. And so, there is not, all these other ways that you can do it. There's, there's only one way, and Christ said it flat out, and then you get down to, was he a liar, was he a lunatic, or was he really God?

[38:13] And when he said all that stuff, there's ways you can really determine, he wasn't lying, and he wasn't a lunatic, he really was God. He proved it in things that he said. And I think I forgot the second thing.

[38:25] That's all right. People talk about, I forgot it. Ah. Well, if it comes back to you. All right, over here to Cameron.

[38:39] Hand off. Yeah, that's a common one that we've heard, that we've talked about too. Many roads to heaven.

[38:49] If I'm, or the thought that I'm a good person, and I'm not a bad person. You know, I'm not Hitler. I haven't, you know, tried to wipe out a whole race of people, or anything like that.

[39:04] Those are the bad people. So this thought that I'm better than I really am. Cameron? I think this really kind of circles back to question two within, within our culture.

[39:19] So many of the superficial reasons that I've heard tend to kind of go back to that individualism. You know, God's not really judging me.

[39:31] I just have to love God and I'll get there. And I think you see that so much in our culture and, you know, with the American gospel, you had the Oprah Winfrey that, you know, we're all, kind of like Wes was saying, we're all climbing the same mountain.

[39:44] There's many ways to get there. We just have to find our own truth, right? And so I think this almost kind of circles back, at least for our culture, to that second question of most of the superficial reasons we hear now for rejecting the true gospel of Christ is around that individualism.

[40:04] Yeah. Good. The truth. Yeah. I am my own source of truth. Back here to Wes. When people, you witness to people, they say, yeah, but doesn't the Bible contradict itself?

[40:18] No. One of the easiest things you can do to combat that is say, well, like where? Tell me where. They really can't show you where the Bible is contradicting anything solid.

[40:29] So they just say it because they've heard it said and so that's enough for them and so they just totally ignore what it says. So a lot of times when they say that, well, can you give me an example?

[40:40] Well, you know, it's just, it says other things and it's a, well, where? Can you tell me where? Because they had never even read the book. They don't even know. They're just repeating what someone else has told them. So it's an easy thing and then when they give you, if they give you something then you can show them, okay, well, those are synoptic gospels and this one, John is different and you can kind of get into that and show them that it's still truth.

[41:00] But anyway, you get that one a lot too where they're just parroting something they've heard before and it gets them out of the conversation that the Bible contradicts itself. And good point too. When people, when you hear those things, that's good, it's been mentioned by you and Nick is to press them a little bit more on that.

[41:17] Well, what do you mean? Or give me an example. And then you find out, yeah, they're just repeating a talking point that maybe they heard in college or in high school or from somebody but they don't really know.

[41:32] They're just repeating what they've heard. Do you think of any examples from Scripture of people who use superficial reasons to reject Christ? The rich young ruler.

[41:46] What was his superficial reason? Yeah. I'm going to have to, you know, I'm going to, my money can't be my God anymore, you know.

[42:00] I'm going to have to lose my identity which is that I'm rich and now all of a sudden you're, you know, and obviously Jesus was, you know, getting at the point that your God is your wealth and that's how you find your identity, you know.

[42:17] And, anyhow, yeah, superficial. We have a lot of people who kind of have that same mentality and it just goes back to sin. I don't want to, I love my sin and I don't want to give it up.

[42:29] Any other examples you can think? Festus with, and Agrippa with Paul. Okay.

[42:41] Stop talking or I might believe go away Paul. the man who wanted to bury his father. Let the dead bury their own dead. Right?

[42:51] And again, and what was the superficial reason with him too? Family? Yeah. Priorities? Yeah, and really I think in all of these things too we can see a common thread, can't we?

[43:05] that it's, I want, I've got, this is who I am. This is my identity and to confess and follow Christ means losing that.

[43:17] But we see really, you know, he, what Jesus says, he who seeks to save his life will lose it, but he who loses his life is the one who will find it. You know, because our identity is in, is in our creator and who, who loves us, who knows us, by name, who calls us by name.

[43:39] And we realize that, you know, it's pointless to spend all of your life pouring it into, you know, like the rich young ruler accumulating wealth because eventually you die and it goes to somebody else.

[43:54] Right? Yeah, in the parable, the Pharisees, same thing, you know, we are, it's that title, I am a Pharisee, I am a respected person in community, you know, I do have power over others because I'm someone who is impressive, you know, and again, I think just not wanting to confess and admit that they were wrong, they had misinterpreted scripture, that they were blind guides leading the blind.

[44:30] You know, we look at like Nicodemus, I think Nicodemus is saved, I think that he was saved, but you see, that was a process for him, wasn't it? Where, you know, the teacher of Israel is realizing that he is wrong and that Jesus is the son of God and so, it's a process, but eventually I believe that he did get there.

[44:52] Some people don't, but I think we could go on and on about the different superficial reasons, I don't know if anybody else has one from scripture that they can point to. King Herod, yes, slaughter those children.

[45:08] I do not want to lose. I am the king of the Jews and I will not have anyone take my title away from me. Paul, Jack, can you get Paul a microphone? Not to oversimplify, but it all goes back really to the temptation given to Adam and Eve in the garden.

[45:29] You will be like God. Yeah. That was what Satan tantalized them with and that's what the individualism we see in our culture that is living my truth, that is all that kind of stuff is saying that I am my own God.

[45:47] I am the one that controls my destiny. I am supreme and that's where sin is rooted all the time. Yeah. Yep.

[45:57] Good way to tie this conversation together too because I think it does. It all you can go back to the garden and go back to Satan and that original temptation don't follow God.

[46:10] Don't listen to God. Trust yourself. Do what you feel like is right. Look at how great that fruit is whatever it was looks to eat.

[46:22] You know, imagine how it would feel to have it in your hand to taste it in your mouth and this thought that you can be your own God, that you can determine your own truth, that you can give more meaning or purpose to your life than your creator can and you can't.

[46:40] describe it as far as as far as as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as far as