Discussion of Sermon called "Paternity Test"

[0:00] John 8-37-47 was this morning's text.

[0:16] John 8-37-47. We'll read that and then we'll go through our application questions.!

[0:28] I know that you are offspring of Abraham, yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. I speak of what I have seen with my father, and you do what you have heard from your father.

[0:39] They answered him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, if you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.

[0:52] This is not what Abraham did. You are doing the works your father did. They said to him, we were not born of sexual immorality. We have one father, even God.

[1:03] Jesus said to them, if God were your father, you would love me for I came from God and I am here. I came not on my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say?

[1:14] It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father, the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him.

[1:28] When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?

[1:41] Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God. So the first application question, if you want to turn to James chapter 2 and verses 14 through 26.

[2:09] The question was, how does this text apply to this morning's text in John chapter 8? So James chapter 2 verse 14, reading through verse 26.

[2:23] What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, go in peace, be warmed and filled without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?

[2:41] So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, you have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works and I will show you my faith by works.

[2:51] You believe that God is one, you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

[3:02] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works and faith was completed by his works.

[3:14] And the scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[3:25] And in the same way, was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the message and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

[3:39] Okay, so how does that apply? How does that fit with the text that was from this morning in John 8, verses 37 through 47?

[3:53] And I have a microphone up here if somebody would like to. You got Wes? Or Josiah is willing to if you want.

[4:08] Good job. Sorry. Okay, so anybody want to chime in how they think that those texts fit? Wes. My main comment was, don't just talk the talk, but walk the walk.

[4:28] So it's obvious they're not doing what they, in John, they're not doing what they say they are. They're proving to be false in the way they are talking. It's something I had noticed in verse 30.

[4:42] It said that, this is just before that. It says, as he was saying these things, many believed in him. Verse 31 says, so Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him.

[4:53] Then he talks about abiding in me and all that stuff. So even their faith, it wasn't true faith. You know, they said they believed, but it wasn't an honest faith because they turn right around and they're arguing with him.

[5:03] And all the stuff that comes after that. Okay. Good. So faith apart from works is dead. What about works apart from faith is dead as well?

[5:17] Because we have, were you going to add something, Wes, too? I saw you pointing for the. Yeah, okay. Okay, go ahead. Okay. Part when James also is talking about body apart from the spirit is dead.

[5:31] So faith apart from works is dead. So it's showing how the two are really connected, faith and works. You're not saved by your works. But if you are saved, you have faith, works are going to come out of that.

[5:43] Yeah. Works don't produce faith. Faith produces works. You have the faith and it will, if you have genuine saving faith, you're truly a follower of Christ, then works will come out as a result of that.

[5:59] So going back to the text, right? The Pharisees claimed Abraham was their father and that they were saved because Abraham was one whom they descended from, right?

[6:13] Promises were made to Abraham and so by our biology, that means that we have the same promises, that we likewise are saved because of that biological connection.

[6:28] But here, James is again talking about Abraham, but he's talking about Abraham's, he's talking about Abraham's works, right? But he's talking about the faith of Abraham behind the works.

[6:43] And what's missing in the Pharisees is that they had the works, but they didn't have the faith behind it. They didn't really trust. Well, they hated Christ.

[6:54] And though they said they were of God, they truly weren't because that faith that Abraham had, they did not have. And so we know from Scripture that we are saved by faith apart from works.

[7:09] And so while these Pharisees, they had all the outward signs of being children of God, they truly weren't.

[7:21] And Jesus was constantly pointing that out to them, wasn't he? You're a bunch of whitewashed tombs. On the outside, you look pretty, but on the inside, you're full of corruption and death.

[7:32] And he was constantly pointing that out, constantly pointing that out. So the connection here that I think that we can tie back to this Scripture, and again, we're talking about in John 8, what's the difference between a child of God and what's the difference between the child of Satan?

[7:48] is that the child of God, right, we saw, loves Jesus and hears his word. And then because they love Jesus and because they hear his word, they have a desire to obey it and to serve.

[8:00] And the works will come out of that. And so they are made children of Abraham, of the promise, by their faith in Christ, not by their biology.

[8:14] Salvation doesn't pass through the bloodstream. And so that was part of the point, right, that Jesus is making to the Pharisees, is that I'm not impressed by your religiosity, by your zeal, because there's no genuine faith and trust in God, in me, behind what you're doing.

[8:38] Any other observations that you can see that we can pull out of that passage in James? Talking about faith and works. Mike.

[8:55] I'm not sure this is a great in-depth insight into this or not. It's not, I'm sure. But I would be curious to know how many people during Abraham's day took their child to a sacrificial altar and thinking they were doing that to please their God without the faith that Abraham had in the correct God.

[9:22] And their child died on that altar. And you think, okay, if nothing else that shows me that serving Yahweh God, the God of Abraham, was the only incorrect way to do it.

[9:39] Yeah. Good observation. Any others in connection with this text? These two texts? Okay.

[9:57] All right. Kendra. Kendra. Yes. Rahab, when it says, wasn't even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction.

[10:20] So I have to have the hand motions or I forget it all. But she would not have been considered faithful by blood.

[10:32] She wouldn't have been a Jew. And so us, you know, that shows us. It's another example, I guess, that it's not about the blood, but it's about circumcision of the heart and about obedience.

[10:45] Amen. Yeah, good point. Very good. Especially hearing James draw that out as well. Yeah, it's not, salvation is not by ancestry.

[10:56] And I think for us sometimes maybe we lose how big of a deal that was to the Jews back then because they thought, I think it was, and I've heard that the tradition was that they would say that one of the prophets stood at the gates of hell checking for circumcision and no Jew would enter if they were circumcised in the flesh.

[11:17] And then, you know, you look at all that Paul said in Romans and Galatians talking about that very thing in which Kendra mentioned. Circumcision is of the heart, not of the flesh, right? That we are saved by our faith, not by our ancestry or by our works.

[11:34] That works are a result of genuine faith in Christ. And so, it's still the case today, as it was back then, that a person can claim to love God, claim to serve God, and give all the outward indications that they are truly following and believing, but for us to know that it could all be motivated for something else.

[12:04] Like for the Pharisees, you know, it was the prestige and the title and all of the worldly benefits that came from being a part of that class.

[12:16] That continues to be the case today. And again, I remember a couple weeks bringing out the example of Judas, just how close a person can be to Christ and not be saved.

[12:28] So, if anybody trusts in their works for salvation, or if they're trusting in the fact that my parents were believers, and so therefore, I have some claim to salvation, it doesn't work that way.

[12:42] Alright, let's look at Matthew 7, verses 15-20. Matthew 7, verses 15-20. Matthew 7, verses 15-20.

[13:17] Matthew 7, verses 15-20.

[13:47] Matthew 7, verses 15-20. Wes. Wes. Wes in the back, sir.

[14:03] I summed it up on my notes, just no fruit, no faith. he gives the example in agriculture but it's still the same thing people are saying one thing and not doing the other it just comes to show in the end there would be fruit if they really are have that faith and are believing and obeying God okay good thank you Wes Pharisees fruit was bad yeah so it's not possible Jesus is saying here if the faith is lacking the fruit the motivation behind it it will be corrupted diseased ever ate a piece of nasty fruit it looks great it looks like it ought to taste good you take a big bite out of it and there's something wrong you know okay I'm sorry alright nasty fruit you know you see people that that

[15:12] God forgive me okay you see individuals who you know they're all that and a piece you know in the bag of chips as far as on you know there and there's nothing there is nothing of value but they've got the prestige and they've got the position and it is so scary to me that that could be any one of us at any moment in time that we have to be so careful of what we fertilize our fruit with that we're getting the right stuff so that what we produce out of what we've been given is good fruit especially for those of us that like work with the children and things it's terrifying to maybe tell a kid something that's wrong and send them down a wrong path

[16:20] I've seen it happen and so you know the very next section in this brother pastor in Matthew 7 the very next verse and I'm sure everybody else noticed it too it's not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of my father is in heaven will enter and many will say didn't we send children to you know to church camp blah, blah, blah well did you get a plaque for it?

[16:57] did they put your name on the baptistry because you did this and you did that? whose glory did you seek in it? and that's what's scary I think of a lady I knew in Coffeyville and she was highly thought of and I went over to her house to do something with her one day and she had to show me all of the plaques that she had received over her lifetime for different things she had done for the, you know and I thought watch out watch out you know unless you're planting on lamina at his feet don't be trying to collect that stuff here yeah you know which was something the Pharisees were guilty of doing which they were real good at doing making I mean being aware of their outward appearances and you know sitting wearing their long tassels and all that jazz yeah so yeah that's what it made me think of keep your fruit good fruit examination right it's possible to to look at a piece of fruit and it looks fine but on closer inspection maybe on one side it looks good but on the back side there's a big black spot yeah okay

[18:15] Ben kind of going along with that when we were in China it was not uncommon for us to go get fruit from the marketplace and it was fresh it looked beautiful bananas especially but you would peel the banana back and take a bite and it was like hard as a rock it was just nasty and I don't know what it was that they put into it but it looked beautiful but the inside was bad the other thing I was thinking of as I was reading this this afternoon was we planted trees in China that was part of our access and I learned I don't know much about agriculture and forgive me any farmers in here that will quickly know my ignorance but one of the things that I learned quickly was that if the root of the tree is not good the fruit will not be good and so the next passage even beyond you know Lord Lord is build your house on the rock and what is the rock it's the word right and it just made me think of that's what produces good fruit that having the word having God's word and even the Pharisees rejecting who Jesus was and the word that he was speaking to them that was their their problem was that they they didn't have that root of faith in who he was as the word so good comments any others

[19:41] Nick while we were reading this I thought of the esteemed theologian George W. Bush actually and something that he had said he said we have a tendency to judge others by their worst examples but judge ourselves by our best intentions and I think that that's true when I was thinking about fruit how I think it's so easy for us to be deceived actually in how good our fruit is as we examine ourselves and that's why we need our families and we need our church family to help us see rightly what is the fruit of my life because left to myself it's so easy it's so easy for me to be self deceived and look and say I have right beliefs and my fruit's pretty good yeah yeah everything's okay but that's why all of us need each other very good well and in thinking about this too with the Pharisees they had so many fold didn't they that their fruit was good fruit and how does Jesus how did Jesus and we're starting to move a little bit into the last question but just think about even in this text in Matthew 8 37 through 47 how did he reveal that they were diseased trees bearing bad fruits does everybody else seem to think well these guys these are the godly men these are the ones who know the scriptures and who are the most obedient they're the closest to God no doubt these guys are saved but Jesus made the point time and again that you know in fact they were the blind leading the blind that they were you know you think of his sharpest rebukes and they were against these men these religious leaders more so than anybody else and so what what were the things that he did how did he how did he know

[22:03] I mean obviously we know how he knew he was omniscient but how did he how did he reveal uncover that they were diseased trees bearing bad fruits or some of the things that he would do to them and he as he confronted them all right let's go Ed and then Wes right how he uncovered what the Pharisees were doing I in my opinion of course he mingled with those who needed help they stayed separated they didn't want to get dirty they didn't want to get defiled he was he helped anyone that needed it you know and my other thought while Nick was talking I kind of had some thoughts come up you know that you know when I was growing when I was growing up in church you know

[23:11] I've been in church all my life and I remember dad and mom always talking about you always wear your Sunday best you know I don't know that it's so much that much that way anymore but one of the times that I went home for a holiday or a family gathering back to South Dakota and got with my brother and brother-in-law and everybody and they're talking about you know did you you know what do you guys wear to church and I was like what does it matter you know but anyway you know and I remember telling him you know nice pair of jeans and a nice shirt you know and well they look down on you and I said if they do I'm in the wrong place because it's not about your outward appearance it's about what's inside and how and whether you serve you know how you serve Christ so anyway that's just a side side light but good point Jesus was always making that observation wasn't he though with the Pharisees and by pointing out how how careful they were with with looking a certain way you know that my my hassles are long and my phylacteries as well

[24:24] I want people to notice these things about me they often would seek the place of honor right at banquets and so they were very conscious of their appearance and and and wanting to impress other people so I think we could look at the same in the church if we see people who are very conscientious of how they look and how they're treated and wanting to have that place of honor that that could be a very clear indication like the Pharisees that this is a diseased tree bearing bad fruit um I don't I don't care I'll just say the church rhema uh bible church is that what they call themselves in Tulsa you know one of the uh what is that uh kenneth hagan and the the word name it and claim it whatever movement a lot of that history is there um a long time ago

[25:26] I won't get into specifics but we had an opportunity Danny and I I don't think we had children yet at that point in time maybe Jack but to to visit she has family in Tulsa and we were going with a family member who attended there and the first thing that caught my attention and I just was interested okay now I'm not saying I just wanted to see what it was like I wasn't going there to to I wasn't going there thinking this place is orthodox and you know I'm going to be fed uh but I noticed how many mirrors were in the building have you ever been in there before I'm looking to see who was it nothing yeah mirrors everywhere mirrors on the wall wall to ceiling and uh one thing that caught my notice was how much time people getting ready to go into sanctuary would look at themselves in those mirrors and and people spending time in the bathroom going in there and seeing people you know combing their hair and really looking over their appearance and then getting into the sanctuary and then you see that there's this big arm and attached to the arm is a camera that sweeps over the congregation and I was just like okay they want to look good for TV but I think part of that too with that false gospel is the presentation

[26:58] I want to look healthy and wealthy I want to appear that way I want people to think of me in such a way and certainly those teachers that's really important to them is it not that they look a certain way and certainly desire to have those those places of being those places where they're esteemed by others so I think like what Ed said you know one indicator that Jesus was always pointing out is that the Pharisees were obsessed with the outward appearance the impression that they were making on other people but Jesus realized and knew on the inside they weren't nearly as impressive as they seem to be in fact as I said earlier they were full of death and corruption okay Wes I was going to say that's wow that's why I didn't ever like going to those big mega churches down in Houston that had the cameras I didn't want them to catch me sleeping in church

[28:00] I was going to say the way he kind of pointed out to these guys was that he had said if you were Abraham's children you would be doing the works Abraham did but now you seek to kill me and then there's a comma to kill me a man who has told you the truth so here they're trying to kill someone that's telling them the truth which kind of means they don't like truth whatever and so it's really kind of pointing out to them how they didn't love Christ they didn't love the truth and you think about how Israel had treated all their prophets you know they're telling them the truth this is going to happen you're going to get invaded and you know tell them the kings that's not what they wanted to hear so they would seek other people that would you know tickle their ears and tell them the thing that we're not going to be captured and all this kind of stuff but a lot of times the prophets are telling them stuff they didn't want to hear and they just almost didn't want to believe it so they hated the prophet for the things he was saying they were telling them the truth other indicator of a diseased tree bearing bad fruit is a rejection of the truth a hatred of the truth as you saw that was the history of Israel with the prophets and then Jesus who was there greater obviously than all the prophets the son of God right there in their midst truth incarnate and they hated and despised him and totally rejected him and so how would we point out with someone who claims to be a believer whether or not they are of the truth well do they believe

[29:36] God's word does God's word abide in them or do they change it or exchange it or water it down or soften its tone that would be a clear indicator that that is a rejection of truth because they don't like it the way that it is and so they are going to morph it and change it until it becomes something that they like but what they like isn't what the Bible is saying okay Julie did you have your hand up Julie alright hold on Julie hold on Julie I'll get you a microphone okay are you sure going once going twice go ahead Julie we want to hear I was just going to say I think that verse 43 why do you not understand my speech because you are not able to listen to my word which was the word from the beginning of the beginning and they would have

[30:42] I mean they prided themselves on how they knew the law and knew the history and yet here was God incarnate in front of them and they wanted nothing to do with him and that kind of brings me to something I'm interested in discussing which is this next thing and the third one if we're going there as I thought about this I thought about how Jesus interacted with people with all people I mean you see him be tender but truthful with the Samaritan woman you see him his conversation with Nicodemus as a you know very different from this conversation here with the Pharisees and you know here he he menses no words

[31:46] I mean he he says some things that are probably completely offensive to these I mean inflaming to these men you know but you know there you know when you look at that you see that there is some grace and mercy in that to say here's who you are maybe it doesn't change them maybe it doesn't inflame them but maybe there was one it caused to think I don't know maybe someone in the crowd I don't know but it brings up the point of how we approach who it is that is saying that appearing to be a believer but who's not is what

[32:47] I'm saying making sense I think you hit on something at the beginning of what you said about another indicator of a disease tree bearing bad fruit is legalism you know with the Pharisees it was all about checking the boxes to make myself feel righteous to make myself feel like I'm a good person and so I think also when we see that in the church a lot as well people who are really legalistic it's all about rule following and I think people who are so legalistic is because they haven't experienced the truth of the gospel in their lives they haven't truly been saved to know that you know our motivation for being obedient to God's word isn't to be saved but because we are saved and the grace that we've received that we didn't deserve and that's always something that causes us to just be in praise and worship of our God who has saved us by sending his son we received the salvation that we didn't deserve and we couldn't work for to earn in any way and then good questions that now we'll this one tonight question three in modeling

[33:58] Jesus example in John 8 37 through 47 and again like Julie said considering the rest of scripture as well whenever Jesus confronts sinners and their sin but this question more specifically at first how should believers address those who claim to be children of God but whose words and actions indicate that they are not how should Christians how should believers address those who claim to be children of God but whose words and actions indicate that they are not Nick in general this is incredibly difficult to do and to do well which is one of the reasons why so often it is not done but I think a big part of this is practicing church discipline and is showing people the scripture and how their behavior does not line up with it and if they reject God's word then it's indicative of I think the state of their heart and then we can escalate from there but I think that has to be at the foundation of our approach which is showing people scripture and by their reaction to God's word I think we'll know where they are inside

[35:31] Matthew 18 if your brother sins against you go to your brother one-on-one and reveal that sin to him it helps that that your brother or sister will repent if not take another if still no then bring them before the church right right skipped another step tell it to the church even if they refuse to believe and then treat them as a gentile or a tax collector so certainly there is instruction from our lord and we see him modeling it that we should not take the approach that well I don't want to create problems I don't want to stir up the waters that would be uncomfortable for them and it would be uncomfortable for me and so I think a lot of times for that reason we don't address sin like Jesus does because it's not comfortable to do it it's a hard thing to do and also because we know especially in our culture and I don't know if it's different in others maybe not but we often we don't like people calling us out like that uh and so usually the reaction is like the pharisees to get very defensive and maybe even violent you know maybe not violent thrown fists but you know we've heard stories haven't we of uh church meetings um but violent with our words well you are this and you are that and so if how dare you uh talk to me like that or we we hear people twist scripture and they'll say who are you to judge judge not yet lest you be judged right and they twist it and they don't understand what what the lord is telling us uh in that text because they use it out of context and I'm sure if you have ever tried to to do Matthew 18 with somebody you've probably heard that at some point in time why who are you to judge me right um who else in modeling Jesus example in John 8 37 through 47 how should believers address those who claim to be children of God but whose words and actions indicate that they are not anybody have any examples uh hold on Julie we'll get you a microphone we want to hear you and I could be totally wrong but it seems to me that

[38:15] Jesus was so um formidable that's the only word I can think of but the pharisees is that they had a position that as influencers of the people as the leaders of the people and um not not that they could not that they could stop the gospel or anything like that but that what am I trying to say that they they were not they were still following they were still following the law which was not the message that that Christ was bringing is oh never mind I don't know what I'm trying to say I'm trying to say I guess are there are there degrees to which are there I don't know what I well even though they knew even though Jesus was consistently pointing out their error they wouldn't acknowledge it and they would continue to fight him continue to confront him continue to antagonize him is that maybe so and maybe it's the fact that maybe the point I'm struggling on is that

[39:45] Jesus Jesus knew their hearts and we don't yeah don't know the hearts unless it's just you know blatant like it yeah like it was in their case and maybe that's where I'm yeah sure it'd be easier if we we were omniscient to yeah if we knew the heart I don't know yeah knew the extent to which we needed sure yeah I totally understand what you mean so I guess that's where I struggle yeah and thankfully we have the word of God to help us identify and in the warnings there will be wolves in sheep's clothing there will be those on the last day who said Lord Lord did we not not not do this this this this and that uh so we know that there are imposters and and he's given us through his word things to help us read you know see to to identify those things um and words and how to address those things when when they do happen but I I like your point that you had made earlier as well so in this situation Jesus is taking a really firm position why is he taking such a firm position with these men and he didn't take as firm as a position with the Samaritan woman for example or Zacchaeus for example why what is it about this confrontation all right Josiah will you take the mic to Michael what was it about this confrontation that Jesus took such a firm stance against the Pharisees

[41:34] I mean these were men that were well versed in scripture that knew it by heart um and they should have known who Jesus was in his coming um they'd read the scriptures in Isaiah and and they knew about this coming Christ and yet they blatantly disregarded who he was and so he took such a firm position because these men should have known exactly who he was and what he had come to do supposedly well versed in the scriptures but they were totally blind to the truth as it as it was standing right before them Amy did you have your hand up okay could it be that Zacchaeus sought Jesus out and could it be that Jesus was there to see the lady on purpose individually and he dealt with those individuals in the way that they needed to be dealt with and sometimes when you get a hard-headed person you got to be hard and you know in fear and trembling and in complete love don't back down because you know one of the things i remember my grandma laura used to say to me is just you may not like what i got to tell you but you're never going to be able to stand there and say nobody ever told you because we are responsible for what we tell other people about jesus and what we let them get by with you know we're not responsible for their i mean we didn't write the names in the lamb's book of life that's god's business but in the meantime all of these little other sheep and goats that we run around with need to know the truth whether they buy it or not and it's our responsibility to make sure we give them the whole load in love and i got my little goat that i'm working on now so you can all keep praying for sophie okay and uh in any case um just god god and jesus in dealt with people as individuals even when he was in a crowd he each heart was a separate heart that he was speaking to and we got to remember we're speaking to hearts too okay good uh wes and danny whoever is easier for you i'll let you choose just sorry um so well i'll i don't want to take something that might be said from somebody else so so i'll wait well mine's shorter than wes's will be so no i think that um the pharisees um they were coming from a state of self-righteousness yes zacchaeus the woman with the well there's a sense of humility they were looking to something outside of themselves the pharisees completely took everything that came from god and pointed it right back to themselves so that's the difference i think but we'll get it to west back here my mom kinder did you have your hand up as well all right yeah you better mind your mom um i was gonna say the pharisees i think as a general rule um you see you see a lot more directness and harshness and um but not from um like a menacing you know place but from jesus from the place of

[45:44] if you are claiming to be mine then you are representative of me and what you are claiming is righteous is not righteous and you cannot claim that righteousness as my flag bearer or my ambassador do not claim that i will be okay with what is not righteous um so i think that there's more of a harshness more of a directness um getting right down to truth this is not okay this is wrong um because as children of god we represent that truth to the darkness to the lost and i like what what you said earlier about pointing those things out to each other because if we are going to be the light in darkness and we're saying something that's wrong it has to be pointed out and um i think see me tears all the time um i think one of the things that shows the difference between someone that is saved someone that's not is someone that can say here's the body tell them this is wrong this is sin and that person receive it and realize that they're i mean to be convicted and one of the things that you said this morning um was whenever you say to when you come home and you say something to your spouse that is wrong you know that's that's mean or whatever are you convicted i like that you didn't say do you come home and say something bad to your wife or your husband because we're all going to sin but are we convicted you know and um i know that really hit me today was praise the lord that i'm convicted of sin not i mean i know that i still sin and i have issues to work through but praise the lord that i'm convicted and praise the lord that the body can speak truth that's piercing um because we do hold a big responsibility as ambassadors of christ to not put before a holy god that which is not holy and um not have a message to the world that oh it's fine you know you can you can do that because it's truth for you but to say no there is one truth and it's his truth and it's not right um yeah i'm gonna comment and but you know yeah when we look at these different examples we see our lord interacting with these people because really it's their the motivations as well you know the samaritan woman is ignorant as to who he is he has compassion on her zacchaeus is not claiming to be a righteous man and the lord has compassion on him but i think you know that was a great observation it's those who claimed his name those who claimed to be righteous and those who were obstinate whenever he would try to when he spoke the truth and they would not be convicted because they could not hear his words uh yeah i mean you see that firmer tone and i think it's a great point you know if we claim the name of christ that's a big thing and it's not something to take lightly as a believer or as a church very good west you've been waiting patiently i have nothing further to say i i want to say i uh nick i agree with you it's it's really hard to i don't want to say confront but to tell somebody something like this that you know your fruits aren't showing the same and all that kind of stuff and i think people need to be somehow just maybe a gentle nudge or however you do that to let them know uh there might be an

[49:48] issue there but i and i might be off base here but when you said matthew 18 it's talking about it if your brother sins against you so i think that's more someone has offended me you offended me i don't go telling everybody else i talk to that person myself but before you start dragging that person well i told him and now three of us told him now we're going to take him to the pastor because his fruits don't look the same as it doesn't look like good fruit or bad fruit i mean it does need to be weeded out and and addressed with but i don't know that that's necessarily something unless it's really egregious that you're bringing in front of the whole church that well he says he's a christian but he i saw him cut somebody off on the road so we're gonna you know kick you out of the church i just wanted to kind of warn on that it's talking about someone offending you not just uh they need to get kind of something straightened out i guess and there's got to be a subtle way to do it i guess but it's going to be touchy i'll say that yeah good point because i mean you know if we were following around each other all day long and we were going to say with each each sin i mean gosh we'd be we'd be pretty busy having conversations about that i think you know we're talking about habitual sin we're talking about something that they're practicing sin they are living in a way that is opposed to the faith that they claim to have in christ and it's harmful for them it's harmful to their family it's harmful to the name that they claim um and so yeah to make sure that when we do this you know the purpose is restoration in the case of matthew 18 you know i and so we got to keep that in mind if i'm going to go to that person and confront their sin it's not because i want to prove that i'm right it's not that i want to show them that i'm holier than they are it's not because i just like confrontation i just like to tell people how messed up they are anything like that and you know scripture interprets scripture we're to speak the truth and love especially to one another and so in that one-on-one that is a the motivation behind that is restoration and still with like a pharisee if there's opposition to that because we still love that person we still are hoping for restoration we bring in another for the same purpose and if there's still opposition and it continues on it goes to the church then ultimately we treat them as a gentile or a tax collector still with the hope that there will be restoration that they will see what they are missing outside of the fellowship of this church that that the holy spirit will convict them that they'll come back and when they do that will forgive them this is god forgives and will welcome them back into our fellowship and so the point of it is restoration part of the reason why this is also hard to do these days is because of how many churches there are in a town like ours they wanted to do church discipline with me they said that i was sinning well and they tried to and they talked to me and they brought i'm gonna go to the church down the road and start fresh so yeah this is hard to do and i mean i encourage you that if if that's the case um certainly there are times where we gotta you know the more we know scripture again the more it abides in us the more we are like christ the more we will handle these things like christ to know um when is the time to go one-on-one with the hopes of restoration this person is claiming the name of christ and they are and they are claiming to be of god but clearly they are not they are like the pharisees blind guides leading the blind a stance needs to be taken the truth needs to be declared they need to be confronted for what they are doing and so just knowing in praying and using good discernment

[53:54] to know what is the right course of action to take josiah i just thought that's loud i just thought of something like about the fruit um what about the fruit that looks bad but is actually good inside oh is it possible i mean you like it doesn't look rotten on the outside it looks like a pineapple and you're like i wouldn't try to bite that but if you cut it open it's delicious right good point well like disfigured fruit yeah but i think yeah even still you know pineapple you can tell a good and a bad pineapple i think i don't know anybody working produce at grocery stores or anything like that that can provide some insights all right john one last comment and then we'll we'll close in prayer well i just want to say in relation to false uh false believers um i grew up in the first christian church in dewey and and i believed and uh you know i i believed in jesus um i walked the aisle and i you know said the right things you know outwardly and i would i profess to be a christian but you know inside i wasn't you know or didn't at the time i didn't realize but you know i do now or in years years past but i just one scripture that i just kind of looked at here is said in matthew 23 27 um he's talking about the pharisee and scribes and not very good terms he said woe to you scribes and pharisees hypocrites for you are like whitewashed tombs which outwardly appear beautiful but within are full of dead people's bones and and within and all uncleanness so you also outwardly appear righteous to others but within you you're full of hypocrisy and lawlessness and that kind of described me growing up even though i didn't know it but um but now i do so but i i wanted to you know talk to you about um what you was talking about earlier um about um your experience that kenneth dating church about mirrors and stuff well anyway um i've listened to great preachers you know like john mccarthur and steve lawson and justin peters and i never heard them ever mention something like that you know so i'm going to rank you among the top preachers anyway that's what i have one to say they'll come my hair in the morning and stuff when i come to church i'm not just like ah let's go to church but you know yeah those who are so caught up in their appearance there's usually that's that's an indicator that there's some bad fruit there all right well let's let's close in prayer heavenly father we thank you for all that you are all that you've done for us that father while we were sinners and enemies of of yours that you sent your son who willingly came empty him empty him emptying himself dying on the cross for our sins that we'd be saved from them and raising on the third day lord is first fruits of what awaits those of us who are your children and god we thank you for your word and how it continually convicts our hearts of sin so that we become more like christ and that's a good thing and as we've talked about tonight lord it's also good whenever we love each other enough that we're willing to to go to our brothers and sisters in christ when they've sinned against us to share that with them

[58:00] in the hopes that there will be restoration that our unity would be more tightly knit in our relationships with one another and and collectively as a church god we pray that that you would give us strength and in wisdom courage and discernment in how to confront those who claim to be following you claim to be representing you but clearly their fruit is rotten and they're blind and they're not saved and they're teaching false things and they're doing so using your name lord help us to know how best to address those issues and just to be like christ in each situation to be prayerful to have discernment ultimately lord we pray that that what we do would bring glory and honor and praise to your name that you would be well pleased with us that you would be glorified by our lives that you've given us to live we love you lord we thank you for everything that you do for us and we ask this in jesus name amen god bless you all have a great evening